Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  17

  Another JW Elder Claiming Clergy Privilage in Court Case

  by jamiebowers in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jws brag that they have no clergy, yet this elder is claiming clergy privilege in a murder case:.

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  http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/pe_news_local_s_clergy09.3c06480.html.

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  Doubting Bro

  Bluesbrother - thanks for the quotes. Interesting how they really used to highlight this lack of "clergy" but how that particular wording has sort of disappeared from their material. Probably because they want the flexibility to use penitent-clergy privilege.

  Sir82 - I wasn't really thinking about the CO/DOs but you're right, they are paid. Local elders, obviously are strictly volunteer. Also, your point about the sheparding calls is dead on. Why on earth would he go alone?

  If he went alone, wouldn't privilege hold? Or would the fact that the elder was speaking to both husband and wife negate privilege? If he followed the rules and went with another elder (which in a situation with obvious volitility you would think he naturally would want to do), then this judge has already ruled that privilege is thrown out.

  Clearly, the WTS legal department is involved here and wants to avoid at all costs the elder having to testify to protect their own assets. If Sir82s senario is close to what happened, I could see the WTS having some liability for pastorial malpractice.
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  17

  Another JW Elder Claiming Clergy Privilage in Court Case

  by jamiebowers in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jws brag that they have no clergy, yet this elder is claiming clergy privilege in a murder case:.

  .

  http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/pe_news_local_s_clergy09.3c06480.html.

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  Doubting Bro

  They do it when it suits their interests . For several years, I was on a Patient Visitation Group that was assigned to visit sick JWs in a particular hospital. Each week, a different person was assigned to go to the hospital and see if there was anyone who said they were a JW and wanted to be visited by a minister. Actually, this was a Catholic hospital and the father that was over ministerial affairs (or whatever they called the office that coordinated ministerial visits) was a super nice guy. Only elders were permitted to be part of the PVGs because from a legal point of view, they are JW clergy.

  I was given a card that identified me as approved clergy and a clergy parking pass. Of course, I didn't use the pass because it made me feel strange to get perferred parking. But, I still have the card and pass!

  My point is that to say JWs don't have clergy is incorrect. To say they don't have a PAID clergy is probably correct and that's how I seen most JWs refer to the elders/COs/DOs in talks. It would be interesting to see some WT quotes and see if those refer to just clergy or paid clergy.
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  69

  best JW Cult words & phrases

  by still_in74 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1 - "new world order".

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  Doubting Bro

  "The Truth"

  "new light"

  "true Christians"
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  32

  Guys how old were you when appointed anything???

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was 19, a pioneer, and a mini-serve.......first literature, then territory, and account servant at 21.....of course a janitor/window washer too (not that there is anything wrong with that!...it paid well!

  ).....i turned down elder as i am very non-judgemental....but almost did it so i could let everyone off in committees......geeze how i wish i had been in in college gettin laid............oompaundercover inspired this thread btw........

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  Doubting Bro

  Baptised- 17

  MS - 21

  Elder - 29

  Resigned as an elder - 38
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  36

  Could a single decision/mistake bring down watchtower

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with decisions by bankers etc bringing down financial systems, other situations decisions have had wie ranging consequences makes one wonder if a single decision could bring things down.

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  Doubting Bro

  OTWO - I agree with your assessment. The single worse decision the GB has made was switching to voluntary donations. Had they not done that, their cash flow position would likely be much better than it is today. The error wasn't apparent at first, but now going on 20 years later - the chickens have come home to roost.

  As far as doctrine goes, it probably doesn't really matter what they do. If they didn't blow up after the 1975 fiasco, I'm not sure that any doctrinal change could bring them down. The pedo suits can likely be handled and I'm still of the opinion that the rumored restructuring of the CO position and any other structural changes they make are a response to that. Maybe they can get nailed on blood, but even if they dropped the blood policy tomorrow, I really don't see the courts getting involved in a religious dispute. So, I don't see a flood of sucessful lawsuits coming down the pike.

  The economic problems we're currently facing must be killing the WTS which was apparently already struggling with finances. But, even if the money runs out, they could survive as a religion, just a smaller one without book publishing which is a dying business anyway.

  I think they're biggest problem is retention of the young and an overall lack of leadership. We're probably close to their peak and then we'll see a small but steady decline.
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  59

  Our JW Friend told by Elder "Satan is using a Pedophile to Break your Faith"

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was given permission by a jw friend of my wife and me to post this experience.

  she's anonymous and posts on the board.

  she is married to a witness still but is fighting on behalf of children in her congregation to not be a next victim of a pedophile who attends her congregation.

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  Doubting Bro

  wow, just wow.
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  32

  1914 is going down.....done away with.......

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  leaving wt: if 1914 goes, they cease to be a religion, imo.

  but, that's another thread.. since leaving wt said this on another thread........i gave him his "another thread".....is so wish i had walked away in 1995 because right away i knew we had just thrown 1914 out the window......since now there was no timelink to the date........no more the end will come during the lifetime of those alive in 1914. i am afraid i disagree with leaving wt on the thought the religion would fail if they totally dump 1914, only because of their history..... they had staked everything on jesus coming invisibly in 1874 and taught that for about 50 years......then kicked 1874 out the window.....and they stuck around after that.

  does anybody know how/why they changed this teaching from jesus coming in 1874 and then decided it was 1914?.....................thanks....................oompa.

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  Doubting Bro

  oompa & sir82 - I certainly can see that happening. After all, they've done it before with the 1874 to 1914 end of the Gentile Times on even lamer reasoning (uh, we missed some years). Sir82, the 1935 thing is brilliant. That would take out the whole problem with the fact that Jerusalem wasn't destroyed in 607.

  I'll add a new thought (the WT writers should pay royalties):

  Does this adjustment mean that the "faithful and descreet slave" only began feeding the "domestics" after 1935? Since Matt 24:45-47 states that the Master "upon arriving" finds the "slave" already doing this important feeding work, evidently, Jesus was pointing to a period of time prior to his arrival in which this worldwide feeding program was already taking place. Certainly, there is ample evidence that Bible truths began to shine forth with the work of Charles Russell and in earnest in 1919 when blah blah blah
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  11

  No motivation/depression/for those people still in.

  by easyreader1970 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this message is not necessarily intended for those people who are no longer in the organization or who were never in it.

  it's primarily directed towards people who are still in but who don't want to be (likely for family reasons).. i won't go into details (read my profile if you need more info), but the bottom line is that i'm still associated with the wbts because i enjoy waking up to my children every morning.

  by extension, i guess i am happy waking up to the wife, too, but deep down i know she loves the wbts far more than she loves me ...so since i prefer to see them every day as opposed to every other weekend and not being demonized, this is why i am still here.. to the point.. i really want to know how some of you cope who are still inside, on a long term basis.

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  Doubting Bro

  easyreader1970,

  I've gone through spells like that. I'm in a similar situation to you, although you wife seems more zealous for the WTS than mine does.

  You ask what some do to cope. I try to compartmentalize the WTS to the two times a week we go to the hall. I've gone in service, but won't speak at the door or if I do, just read a scripture and leave. It really sounds like you're suffering from clinical depression issues which may go beyond the WTS. Maybe seeing someone could help? Do you have anyone in real life that you can talk to?

  Throw yourself into doing things with your kids. I find they can really help you focus on what's important. Pick one thing to do even though your not motivated. Push yourself to do it. Once its been accomplished, you may find that you'll be motivated to try the next thing.

  Don't let the WTS suck the life out of you. I look at it as a battle for sanity. Don't let them win.

  I'll also give you the WTS advice - More Study, prayer, meetings and service!!! LOL
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  72

  SIT DOWN!.....i am going to the meeting next week for sex....

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  actually...i am just hoping that mo/betta sex is just a huge fringe benefit (really hoping that!!!!!!!

  ) ......i may start going one or two times a month........and it was an idea handed to me by my friend bonnzo here.

  he is a great guy all around....who loves his old pioneer mom enough to keep going to the meetings a bit instead of doing what we would both like to and walk away......actually we both would probably prefer that all our family and friends walked away and then it would not even be like walking away.

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  Doubting Bro

  oompa,

  I understand what you're saying. In many ways, I envy the stand that you've already taken. It seems like you'd be regressing, but life is too short to make yourself miserable simply to make a point. Your wife must realize that you don't believe, that you'd just be going occasionally to make her happy. Here's the thing, you can't unring the bell. You'll never be a believer in the WTS again.

  I still go with my wife mainly 1) to keep track of the crap that is being spewed and 2) to keep the peace. Honestly, I would do much tougher things to make her happy. Do I believe a word of it, hell no. She knows that too.

  I think each person's situation is different and you need to do what you think is right. Good luck buddy.
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  20

  What is the general "mood" these days of Dubs at meetings and assemblies?

  by Alpaca in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 1998. back then, the change in the 1914 "generation" teaching was still sinking in and the "mood" then was one of confusion and head-scratching about what it all meant.. it is difficult for me to imagine how the "mood" now could be anything other than one of disappointment and doubt...even if it is not openly expressed.. do you think at some point there will be critical mass of doubts (and doubters) that will just start spilling out when dubs realize that others around them feel the same way?.

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  Doubting Bro

  I'd also describe the general mood as auto-pilot. Most folks try to put on the fake smile but lately they haven't even bothered doing that. Also, about 5 minutes before the meeting starts, most are in their seats already. At least 30% come in after it starts and there is a stampede out the front door as soon as the prayer is done.